What did Andie talk about?

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on October 21, 2007 at 9:14pm

Andie went pretty deep down the rabbit hole during the talk.. deep by my current understandings anyway. I will not be able to do justice to his talk from my scribblings so I would encourage you to watch the video of the talk as soon as becomes available on the BSO computers.

Some concepts I found especially interesting was the idea of an osteopathic approach to psychotherapy and communicating information that was intuitively felt whilst working on a patient - information which could sometimes be extremely personal.

Andie talked us through his tongue-in-cheek model of 10 steps towards osteopathic nirvana. Most students are at the "rubbing things" stage (1) when they qualify and good ones at the "rubbing & stretching things with architectural principles in mind" (3). On the other end of the scale were osteopaths who "appealed to deep cellular integration" (9) working with rhythms and bringing things into harmony at a deep level (cranial?).

Something else worth noting - he talked about how important excellent knowledge of anatomy is. He reckons it is far too easy (pass mark is 40%) at our level and should be much more difficult.

It was fascinating talk - definately check out the video. Who knows.. Andie may join the site (I gave him the address when I spoke to him at the Structural Integration conference in Reading). Then again maybe he has better things to do!

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on November 1, 2007 at 1:04pm

The talk is now available on MOND using a computer at the BSO!

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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on May 6, 2008 at 8:01am

Any chance that you can post the video here at SM. Would love to see it.
JJ

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on May 6, 2008 at 9:54pm

At the moment the video is only available internally to people at the BSO. I'll ask if it would be permissible to make it available externally but there may be copyright issues/authorship issues. I'll let you know the response I get.

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Permalink Reply by Blake Vickers on December 13, 2007 at 5:32pm

mmm,... interesting. This reminds me of a passage by Rollin Becker in one of his books where he talks about intentions and depths of treatment. I can't do it justice by writing what I remember so I'll have to dig it out....

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on December 13, 2007 at 5:39pm

Attached is an article I came across by Frank Coulsting DO on intention and healing. Fascinating stuff. I would love to hear Rollin Beckers thoughts on it.

Attachments:

• article.willtoheal.pdf, 2.3 MB

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Permalink Reply by Andy Cotton on July 9, 2008 at 6:29pm

Well hello everybody!

If anybody knows who is the <<keeper of keys>> at the jolly old BSO let them know that anything I have ever done there is free for anybody else to look at. Osteopaths doing and thinking one thing and pretending they don't really do that at all has to stop, or we'll be regulated to death! "you can't stop the signal" ;-)
In fact, who actually owns Manus Sinistra (the student society @ the BSO) stuff? As the co-founder of it maybe I do. If anybody speaks to ben katz maybe we all can free the manus stuff from it's dungeon.
If the manus lectures could be centralised on a lectures/downloads site that would be great. I have access to server space if needed. It should be the BSO really but it is an institution so wracked with fear and dread I doubt they'd do it.

I'm not sure if I should look at this discussion, people might feel inhibited if they thought I was watching? What do the members think? Let me know.


Andy

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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on July 9, 2008 at 7:37pm

Let it rip Andy!!!!
Liberty of thought is where it is at bro!!!

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Permalink Reply by Andy Cotton on July 10, 2008 at 5:33pm

Hi Howard, thanks...
It's funny, this. Listening to your lectures has helped give me the push to speak up more, and now... Really, what are we afraid of? We do nothing illegal or demonstrably dangerous. I don't think there is a "bringing the profession into disrepute" charge. And once it's out at a lecture half of them record it, and it will get out there one way or another anyway. Any osteopath is <<bound>> to self regulate their competence and you would not be responsible for their outcomes. They might call you as an expert witness, but sue you? Really? And students are not allowed to do anything at all therapeutic, unless the plan is agreed by the supervisor/tutor and then they are responsible. Members of the public or other professionals, well don't you speak to them already? On itunes ("iTunes U") there is even a section available to the general public where you download Harvard/Yale /Stanford lectures, some quite controversial. Academic debate is being transformed by citizens access, no getting away from it. If you are concerned just add a "don't try this at home" caveat?
Something has changed in me. I was at a recent BOA junket about language and one of the people there (top of the profession, loved by all etc etc) said that he routinely lies (effectively) about what he really does. And where has that got us? At the genuine edge of being regulated out of existence. Fear, lack of freedom for robust intellectual debate. These are the things we are so used to they are simply routine. I have started to say what I think and do and so far, the world has not ended. If somebody wants to challenge my thoughts, let them. Bring it on.
Maybe you operate closer to the edge technically and legally, and have genuine risks, I can completely understand that, but the next generation looks to us and if they just get the regular garbage then we are locked into a cycle. The medium of the internet, viral youtube campaigning. This is a whole new ball game. As I understand it, just always say that what you suggest requires a full classical training and you are ok. Otherwise it's like a secret society or something. Intellectually, we have come a long way. Maybe it's time to trust ourselves.

respect, Andy

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on July 16, 2008 at 1:39pm

Hi Howard

Niklas pointed me in the direction of this and I thought it may be an illustration of what you would not like to see on YouTube.

Introducing Dr. Mitsu Shiokawa, famous Japanese chiropractor!


Sound required..

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Permalink Reply by Andy Cotton on July 16, 2008 at 9:56pm

Ronan..

What is so wrong with this? Guy looks pretty skilled to me. If he gets great results with all sorts of what looks like sports stars how is that a problem? Makes manipulation seem normal, familiar. Attractive. Better than preciously hide it away and run the risk of fear and lack of evidence removing our right to manipulate at all. Modern Chiropractic seems more Osteopathic than what passes for Osteopathy at one or two schools I could mention. There is a creeping tendency to not manipulate in schools, especially the cervical spine.
I have known recent graduates cheerfully admit they have never gapped/cavitated a cervical facet, and will not ever try "because of the risks".
I have seen a video of AT Still doing this sort of public demonstation in virtually identical circumstances. So, what problem?

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on July 17, 2008 at 2:06pm

I see where you are coming from Andy and take on board what you say about it normalising manipulation.

The 1st time I watched it I was intrigued but got distracted by the Rocky theme tune and the promotional quality. The 2nd time I watched it I paid more attention to what he was doing.. lightning bone setting.

Is the AT Still video available online?

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