Want to know about BCOM

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Permalink Reply by lauren storey on June 3, 2008 at 12:22pm

Hey Clement,

Couldnt add up all the naturopathic hours as there was quite a few different bits added and other things you pick up in clinic and from tutors. Our set dietetics lectures consisted of two hours a week for the second year so that tallyed up to lots of hours as well.

Basically naturopathy is using the nature cure and using natural ways to help 'cure' and prevent dis-ease within the body. It not only includes the foods we eat and effects they have directly on the body but also the benifits of food preperation and how to keep foods as close to their natural state as possible. It also works from a preventative view by stop disease before it becomes a problem, a lot of it being reasonably common sense. It also looks at lifestyle and environment as helps to try and return that to as natural state as possible, obviously within reason!

As far as patients loosing weight the rules for that would be the same as within any dietetic setting, you have to take in less calories than your burning off. Some people try this trough exercise but to really have a difference you have to just take in less calories as this gives mush more control of calories. I would give the patient a diet diary to assess everything they eat and then just start of with trying to remove sugary snack and replced them first with fruit substitutes, to still give them the sugary kick , and then move on further to vegetable. Once they become accustomed to this then bigger changes can be made adding in smoothies and juices and taking out really fatty foods. Advic on the way they are cooking things can be given to make food preperation healthier.

I think nutrition/naturopathy should go hand in hand with ostoepathy, as so if your not gettign the lectures you need, try reading around the subject, there are loads of books out there about naturopathy and the effects of different foods on the body.

Hope this has helped you a little with what BCOMers get up to learning!

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on June 3, 2008 at 1:35pm

Cool. I think so too, nutrition is so so crucial to the total lesion concept. The more I learn the more I realize that.

There's a very interesting point about the loosing weight principle you said: People need to take in less calories.

Did you know that the body can reduce its calorie output (metabolic rate) by 50%? That means that as you start to decrease your calorie intake (or starve your body), your body decrease its calorie output in defense of this starvation.

All caloric diets works in the short run: quick weight loss (due to fat being used), then plateau out (as the body reduces its metabolic rate), then a bit of weight gain (except for the very rigorous ones of us), and finally when the diet is stop the person is fatter than they were before - as the body takes time to readjust its metabolic rate to the increased calorie input.

I would imagine what you tell your patients definitively works, but on a different principle i think. For me, it normalizes the way the body deals with food storage and use.

The Montignac diet (he brought the Gylcemic Index to Europe) takes you nicely thro all that:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Montignac-Diet-Michel/dp/1405310758/ref=sr_...
(it can get much cheaper...)
For me this is not the whole picture of nutrition but its a crucial place to start.

I did this little map ("Montignac method") recapping one of the many things that happens in our body regarding food. It made sense at the time... :-)

What do you think?

Attachments:

• Montigniac Method.jpg, 228 KB

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Permalink Reply by lauren storey on June 4, 2008 at 12:34pm

The key to loosing weight isn't about cutting down the calories enough to go into starvation mode or by using and fad 'diets' that advertise lossing weight whilst eating and drinking as much as you like. The calories you must cut are the empty ones from foods you just dont need, sugars/processed foods that you gain no good from. When you cut them out you then replace that food in take with foods that are benificial for your body and slightly less calorific egs fruits/vegetables so the amount of food your taking in doesnt change.

By advising special 'diets' to patients its likely to cause them to see them as temporary when really changes need to permenant changes otherwise doing them in the first place is pointless. Start of with small changes then gradually build it up. This way the patient may gradually become acustomed to the new way of eating and is far more likley to stick with it.

Quick weight loss should not be the goal otherwise what you mentioned above probably will happen. You should take the time to explain the health reasons why changing the diet will be benifical and make the patient feel healthier and then the weight loss will naturally occur in a much more balanced way. Advice can also be given on how to prepare/cook their meals in order to get the most benifit from the foods and other lifestyle/exercise changes that may be benificial.

There have been studies to show that eating slight less calories than your recommended intake can actuall be benificail to health, try searching it on pubmed, theres a lot of interesting things about it.

As far as the map you've drawn i couldn't really see it clearly on my comp so can't really comment on that sorry.

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on June 4, 2008 at 1:43pm

Yeah, I had a look at that map and I can't understand it anymore, I would need to read my physiology notes again! :-)

I agree with all you say 100%. i think its just my thinking behind it that differs perhaps, perhaps not. Here it is if your interested:

The physiological link that i've found real interesting was the double effects of insulin. The <<sugars/processed foods that you gain no good from>> take no time to get digested (coz their bonds are already weakened from the refinement process); loads of glucose in a short space of time is released from these foods; that leads to a hyperglycemia; loads of insulin released; overshoot - hypoglycemia (2oclock crash) - need sugar boost and here we go again. This process result in higher levels of insulin. But what else does insulin does? It stimulates fat storage, use of glycogen/glucose for energy! ta ta.
Also, that strains the pancreas and leads to diabetes...

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Burne on June 4, 2008 at 11:10pm

my comment acknowledges the above... but the simplest way to lose weight.. and maintain it is very simple:
reduce portion sizes

patient's colorific intake is often big because of the foods they're eating, and they can often be stubborn about changing too much.
as lauren said, cutting out some sugars and carbs is the 1st step...

but the effect of looking at portion sizes, and ensuring they're not too big can be profound. this is especially relevant, tragically so, in those who are single: cooking a meal (healthy or otherwise) can be difficult to portion for one... leaving leftovers (or not, which may be the problem!)... ensuring the patient eats the correct amount is a major and fairly manageable way to adjust weight

lauren had given most the info about naturopathy at BCOM..
and i felt left out, so gave this brief lecture
but she missed out that in the 1st and 2nd year we have 2 hour lectures on naturopathy alone.. along with the 2 hours weekly in the 2nd year on nutrition and dietetics.. which is based more on requirement levels, sources, restrictions and more...
(plus we have naturopathy involved, as i mentioned in the BCOM vs BSO thread, in 3rd and 4th years through visceral and gynae lectures, as well as clinic)

one could argue that mostly naturopathy is more common sense (with some not-so common sense attached), while nutrition and dietetics is more scientific, government approved and slightly more practical.. but likely less relevant or effective... though obviously it really depends on what you're looking at treating, and the patient involved.

also.. clement, i look good regardless what i wear... i think the chest hair really sets me apart as a dedicated, realistic and quality amy wino impersonator

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on June 5, 2008 at 10:18am

:-D you sexy beast!

Well I think its pretty clear that you do a lot of food related hours at BCOM, much more than we do at ESO. Which is real good coz I realized that in the end, if my mum wasn't a dietitian I would know jack all about nutrition, which was the case of most of my colleagues I think.

I'm now wondering the total of hours done throughout the course, practical and theory. Coz either you work much harder, or there are other subjects with less hours to compensate.

This weight loss discussion is really interesting so I'm starting a new discussion about it (otherwise Ronan will get eggy ;-)):
http://www.sacralmusings.com/forum/topic/show?id=921165%3ATopic%3A2...

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Permalink Reply by lauren storey on June 5, 2008 at 10:25am

Through out all of the years the number of hours a week spent at uni has varied between 26-29 hours plus then out of uni hours, but in the 2-4yrs some of this is clinic as well.
I wouldn't say there are any areas that compensate for this but from what i understand the courses at all of the universities are laid out in very different ways but eventually end up covering the important aspects in the end.

What sort of hours and lectures do you cover at eso?

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on June 5, 2008 at 1:27pm

Right, i think that's definitively more that at the ESO. I remember back in the first year having more days off than working days in a week. It got more and more busy, but even towards the end of the 1st year, it was rare to have more than 21 hours.
However the course has changed since then, but there's no new bloody ESO members taking part to tell us, umm hellooo?! The internet connection in the Maidstone country side is probably too slow... :-)

In the second year it definitively got more full on but it was generally no more than 24 hrs/wk

Its funny how the 3rd & 4th yrs are just a blur to me. Perhaps because it got much more practical filled with osteopathy, therefore more interesting, so you count less the hours you do... With clinic and project, time spent in lectures gets a bit blurry.

I've uploaded the modular program from the ESO - its the one I did tho, not the current one which has changed a bit regarding the distribution of hours - for the best. But it gives clear details

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