Osteopathy regulatory issues around the world

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on December 29, 2007 at 10:43pm

The French are never happy, that's for sure, its in their blood :-)

Where is the evidence base in the UK? The GOsC is only starting this year to do some proper organized research, and its been around fore a decade... Are osteopathes dangerous with cervical HVTs? Well, no one knows! But in France they play with this to create restrictions on us. What about babies? What are the risks? Ha yeah, they can possibly get better ;-) ... I cannot understand how envidence base can be THE issue in France. However, i do understand that it is the DRASS in charge of the regulation of all therapies. They are not specific at all to osteopathy, fare from it. I called the Rhone-Alpes DRASS, she didn't even know what was going on with osteoapthy, and how it all worked regarding regulation process. I should know in four months weather i can practise osteopathy in Savoie or not. Is this logical? Wouldn't it be better if there is just the one "GOsC". That's because the France isn't a logical country. And people that governs things like it like that coz it makes it easier for them for many things including creating stupid legislations.

Why place such rules on osteopaths in France? Is it for the benefit of patients, to protect them? Or is it that convetional medicine wants to keep the power, the patients, and therfore, THE MONEY...? Who makes up and validates these legislations? Real osteopaths? Or medicals - doctors?

What is the main treatment method of doctors? Durgs. Is the drugs business a big one? yes, very big. Osteopathy doesn't use drugs, umm, that can't be good for the profit of phamaceuticals companies. How close are drugs comapnies and medicine - doctors, and how close are doctors to legislations - they make them. The more patients have a bad impression of the "real osteopaths" (us!) the more they go to doctor-osteopaths.
I meet loads of lay people everyday here in France (on the ski lifts mainly ;-)). One women was telling me that she definitively want to go see a GP-osteo because he is inssured! What the?!...
The more the demand for drugs from patients, the more is produced and sold, the more the profit. Keep the demand, keep the profit. For me, these legislations are here to keep this patient demand to doctor-osteo. In doctor-osteo there is doctor, and where there is doctor there is drugs...

I cannot beleive that we brought this on our selves, but please, develope...

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Permalink Reply by Elton on December 30, 2007 at 10:31am

Hello everybody,
The Italian MD's register is trying to achieve the same goal as in France, having two kind of different professional: non-doctor osteopath and doctor osteopath. A situation like this already exist for nutritionists wich is a specialization ( three years ) usually for biologist, but for doctors too. MD's can treat patological situation and prescribe any drugs, while bio's can only prescribe diet for physiological situations ( ex: only MD's can prescribe diet to diabetes patients )and no way any drug prescrption.
Over here even dentistry isn't really FREE, as 'till 80's Italy was the only country where for being a dentist you had to be a MD+3 years of internship...so there are still lots of MD-Dent and Odontoiatra's ( BSc dentistry ) are still under the big red-cross wing of doctors..
Don't wanna go out of topic...so the only way for having a european recognition is having a 5 yrs full time univ training, like BCOM does,like ICOM and ISO in Italy do, like GCOM in germany does, with Master in Ost Med, and if our friend doctors want to become Osteo's they just have to "time-out" from their profession, start from year 1 to year 5 ( possibly some general med essays would be passed ) but NO WAY osteopathy should ever be a specialization of any health profession. Up the chiros for that regolation!
And last but not least...WHY THE HELL our cousins chiro are called doctors in UK/France if they have the exactly same education in terms of years and of academical subjects as osteos? Don't you know that 50% of any placebo effect that we ever might give to a patient is delivered through by that 2 pre-name words? Don't anybody understand that the lady from the street ( we use a term that could be translated in "miss. Smith":) ...) judges a health care profession mainly by those kind of things ( obiouvsly when choosing among different names as on a yellow pages search )? I perfectly know that this is really stupid, but thats how the world is.
And aside from that being called doctors is a great achivement too for any osteo student, whom has to sacrifice a lot through studying and clinical trainig for 4/5 years full time like dentists and chiros.
I know that this absolutely ain't the big issue for osteo profession, but it's one of many signs that shows that there are some intrinsic problems.

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Permalink Reply by Sabine on December 30, 2007 at 12:40pm

Hey,
I think what we first need is an european title every student will get after 5 year full time college. I think this would be a master of science in osteopathy or something like that. Every university, college etc. which offers a study programm which leads to this title has to follow the european credit system.( It´s the standard system for bachelor and master) So every student for example has a minimum of 50 cranial lessons. A college in France will perhaps offer more lessons in craniosacral practice than the british universities. But the british still need the minimum number. ( only an example ;-) with thrusts I think it would be the other way around) So the same standard for everyone. You do 5000 lessons you will get I don´t know 160 credit points than you get your master title......MD´s doing only 1300 will get perhaps bachelor but not master. And with the master of science in osteopathy it has to be possible to make your Phd ...so we can make the doctor title if we want.
Only a vision I know but it would be great.
And by the way.....when I was young ;-) I went to 3 MD´s the thrusted my cervical spine and it was awful it never had a good result. I always layed in bed 3 days after what they call a real good treatment. I went back to them ( my god I didn´t know it better) and they said....the technique was good it´s your fault you have to take now this muscle relaxation drugs and everything will be alright. I never went back. I think MD´s should prescribe drugs but should not lay their hands on necks....after perhaps a weekend chiropractic course. I can´t really discuss about the frensh policy. But if you ask me it´s a power game. The MD´s are a little bit afraid loosing power. They do everything to hold the osteopaths in their hands. I think if nothing will change we get the same problems in Germany, too. Perhaps we should build an international osteopathic students foundation. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on December 31, 2007 at 7:58pm

Where do i sign up for the foundation Sabine? :-) I couldn't agree more with what you say.

In France, there is a profession called Etiopathie. Like chiropractic, it was invented by an osteopath (but for good reasons this time ;-)) These Etiopaths are basically osteopaths with no cranial or functional techniques. However, if you want to call yourself an Etiopath you have to do the whole four years, regardless of you background (MD?). Now, they bascically have no problems regarding this power issue from doc, coz there are no etio-doc!

Some people do feel that what is happening in France will have a snow ball effect to the rest of europe. I like to think that the opposite will happen. Lets see hey...

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Permalink Reply by Sabine on January 1, 2008 at 10:46am

Wish you all a good new year!!! A little story about part-time students. I did internships by an osteopath last saturday when a woman came in with her daughter and told me, she is studying osteopathy parttime. I asked her how they do their practical experiences. She looked confused and a little bit arrogant. She repeated: We all come from medical professions we don´t need that. We have our own patients. She was so proud that she has done a one-day internship by one of our teachers. I was shocked. She was like I in the 3d year. I sat there looking at her and thought it couldn´t be true. I´m still so unsure in diagnosing dysfunctions. Then we began with the treatment ( the daughter was the patient) The osteopath by the way is a fulltime one. After a while treating her sternum an symphysis he asked the woman if she likes to feel what we´re doing. She said yes and put her hands on the feet of her daughter. We treated and after we finished the osteopath said to her. Perhaps in a few years and only when you can calm down in your own body you can perhaps get a good osteopath. Sorry I had to smile. And she thought she was so good treating patient by her own.
Clement what happens when somebody would know that you still treat babys or touch the pelvis ( what a joke ;-))) are there any penalties?
Oh and another question....you aren´t allowed to touch the pelvis ( what is the reason?) and are you still allowed to make internal - gynaecological treatments? ( or do you need here a referral from a MD?)

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on January 5, 2008 at 6:04pm

I guess you can go to court. But i don't know anyone who has as yet i don't know if anyone ever will. I guess you could get suspended...
The reason for all these laws is power (in my opinion), but the fake reason that they give i do not know.
We can never practice internal techniques or techniques with obstetric reason, never ever.
Ho well, hopefully it'll get better

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