Osteopathy in different countrys - same education?

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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on November 12, 2007 at 9:25am

This is a problem in most European Sates with the exception of the UK, Catalonia, France, Finland, Iceland, Switzerland and Malta.
In all the other countries the title osteopath is not protected.
Over the weekend I attended a meeting of the Forum for Osteopathic Regulation in Europe.
We are finalizing a document which we will then present to Brussells. This document stipulates what is osteopathy, what constitutes proper education. The education subject suggests that osteopaths need to study between 4.000- 4.500 "contact hours" excluding a minimum of 1000 hours under clinical supervision. This should take between 4-6 years full time study ot more if part time.
This should come to between 240-360 European Credits.

This document is meant as a guideline for governments throughout Europe to inform them. Each national register will then decide what is best for them. this is so there in more or less a common standard throughout Europe and so there can be a free movement of osteopaths and patients crossing borders.

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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on November 13, 2007 at 10:45pm

Hey Sabine!

In the UK we are very lucky and the profession is registered. You need to do a 4 year full time degree (5 part time) at a RC (recognised qualification) university to become an osteopath. Unless you do this (and pass all your exams!) it is illegal to call yourself an osteopath.

Unfortunately in Ireland (where I'm from) the title osteopath is not protected and it is the same as in Germany.

Let's hope with the work Jody and others are doing this will get resolved.

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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on November 15, 2007 at 2:52pm

Some representatives particularly from Belgium and Austria are pushing for a 5 or even 6 year course so that it comes in line with medical education in their countries. The UK representaives were claiming that the first 2 years at a 4 year British osteopaty school are more intense than a 5-6 years "overseas" course. So tell us you guys who are students at British courses......is it very intense???

In a normal British Uni degree course the first 2 years are said to be a "cake walk" with lots of partying and little work.

How many years do medical students do in the UK before they are allowed to practice?

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on December 12, 2007 at 9:05pm

Probably as intense as a course can get! :-)
In the first year they give you a bit of time so that you to know all the different subject, how it works and stuff. The first term is probably the easiest but everything is new. The pace picks up after that. The second year is the same with much more work. Second year is the no life year. Me, I worked the hardest I've ever worked in my life during my second year and was very close to fail one of the exam, so... (okay, I am a bit stupid :-))

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Permalink Reply by Elton on December 21, 2007 at 11:30am

Hello everybody,
I'm from Italy. Over here osteopathy isn't reconized so everyone can call himself Osteopath; anyway we have a register wich is called ROI and accepts professionals coming from recognized private institution. We part time, mix-mode and full time education. First one is for Physio, MD, Dentist e Sport Scientist and then 6 years ( but only 1300hours in total and no internship at all). Second and third one are at from 2000 to 3500 hours within 5 years + 1200 hours of clinic internship in the college osteopathic clinic ( actually only two colleges have this kind of programme in our country ) The second one is for Physio, MD, Dentist, SS only, while the third one is for student coming from high school ( liceo ), which last 5 years in Italy. Second and third one are validated by Uk universities so you get a BSc in Ost, so they can be registered in the FESIOS, wich is for BSc osteopath only ). There is a huge difference among these kinds of professionals: while the first one are "french-like" ( lots of visceral, cranial and bioenergetic stuff, poorly trained in thrust technique), second and third one are stuctural based, lots of articular and thrust technique, spine assesment, peripheral manipulation, soft tissue and evidence based practice as much as possible.
What about other countries?

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Permalink Reply by Ross on December 23, 2007 at 9:45pm

1300hrs! thats terrible, at BCOM you have to do 6500 clock hours, 1500 of which is seeing patients, osteopathy is a complex thing and as such the degree should be rigourous and preferably painful, I studied for two months for my final anatomy written paper and got a B- and I was lucky that they didnt ask me about spinothalamic tracts otherwise i would probably have failed, modern ostepaths are primary care professionals and as such should have the training to match. anything below the 3000-4000 ballpark is manipulative therapy, NOT osteopathy and lets face it who would you rather send your grandmother too for treatment the guy thats done a 1300hr back cracking course or the proper natural healthcare physician who is a specialist in musculoskeletal medicine?

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Permalink Reply by Clement Rhein on December 23, 2007 at 10:50pm

For me Ross, the later! :-)

Elton, how many schools do you have in Italy?

In England its cool, coz whatever school you go to you have a very good (clinicaly/medicaly) training, due to the GOsC being in place. This creates much clarity in patient's mind. And as a student, when you visit the schools you get any idea of what osteopathy can do and what each schools concentrates on... so you choose what you feel match you best. Easy going really. Hopefully this functioning will spread into Europe someday...

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Permalink Reply by Elton on December 24, 2007 at 10:08am

Hey Clement,
We have too many schools over here and the stadard has been set ( and monitorized ) by ROI, wich is anologous to your ROF. Sadly this standard is really poor, and it'll keep on being like this till the profession will be fully recognized. That shouldn' t take too much as chiropractic has been recognized few days ago. I applied for UK schools becouse I'm aware that it's absurd to believe that 1300 hrs about struct, visceral, cranial , fascial osteopathy could lead you to become a good practioner. Then I found ICOM and ISO ( both in Milan ) wich are the only schools in Italy to offer a UK BSc training programme through BCOM and Westminster Univ, granting 80 ECTS from ours previus health care degrees, as a mix-mode and not part-time, exactly like the BSO one. Talking bout chiros, they give really serious guarantee to patients and other health care professions, coz there ain't no part time and Word Chiro Edu is really unwilling to concede accreditation unless it is at least a 4 years full time degree programme. You want to become a chiro but you are already working? That's not for you! Drop the job and start studying!
That's exatly what I had to do as a mature student for getting BSc in Physiotherapy!
Would you put your grandma into the hands of a part time blood pressure measurer/pain killer prescriber MD or into the ones of a six years full time physician?...
I think that osteopathy too should become exactly like Chiropractic in terms of degree standard.
You're right Clement let's hope that such a standard will become the European one for a complex profession like osteopath is.
What can you tell me about ROF french trained osteos? What are the differences that you find compared to a UK trained one?

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Permalink Reply by Elton on December 23, 2007 at 11:28pm

You're partially right Ross. Anyway I know that there is a college in UK wich offers 13 months (!!!) osteopathic course for MD's. Does that means that after this extremely short period you could call yourself osteopath? And much more important, you could be registered with GOC and work as an osteopath? Over here the idea that a non-health care professional could become an osteo ( as you've remarked a PRIMARY helth care profession ) with a part-time course is an utopia.
I did an evaluation day last year and BSO and Oxford Brooks offered me a really shorter way to get a BSc as a physio. Keeping in mind that one of them would have been a part-time course, that would have meant no more than 800-900 hours plus clinic internship ( 1200 hours right? ) for being a UK trained osteopath. The huge difference is the clinic time, wich is THE THING that makes the difference.
Same thing about chiropractic when italian MDs or Physio's apply for AECC is usually two years and 1 year of supervised practice ( but only if you want to practice in the UK ).
The spino talamic tract is a simple question anyway; by that I understand that maybe we are too much into "paper anatomy" and less in the "hands on" one...
Did anybody have a contact with non-UK trained psteopaths in your colleges? I know that many european colleges have lessions, exames and internship in UK as your colleges validate european BSc Ost Med ( in our college we split between ICOM-Italy and BCOM-UK ); so did you notice any differece between the two models of training?
Sabine what's the difference in Germany between your college part-time and full-time trained osteopaths?

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Permalink Reply by Ross on December 24, 2007 at 2:02am

u are probably talking about the lso, which offers shorter couirses to MDs and physios; once again; who would you rather send your granny to for treatment the guy thats done 1300 of how to crack a back or the real deal specialist

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Permalink Reply by Elton on December 24, 2007 at 10:19am

No I'm talking about London College of Osteopathic Medicine, take a look at GOC trainig course link! That's a shame, 13 months for people that don't even know where piriform muscle is!
You should be p****d off to be in the same register as those persons, and that's allowed by the GOC... Granny, you'd better stay home..

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Permalink Reply by Ross on December 24, 2007 at 1:47pm

whats the piriformis muscle? :oj. Yep i know thats not nearly enough time but the course is for drs and physios who already should know lots of anat/phys/internal medicine, my concern would be that their motor skills and palpation would be rather under par after 1300

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