Gathering place for osteopaths
Effective treatment techniques for stroke patients
Hi all, wondering if anyone had any experience working with stroke patients? I have been asked for advice for an elderly patient who has just returned home after four months. She has had regular physio and the family are keen to continue some physical therapy at home. She was in a wheelchair prior to the stroke and they are realistic about further progression. Any advice or views on specialist treatment approach would be much appreciated!
Tags: Stroke
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on -
If the main issue is retraining of the nervous system to overcome any defecit, I know an excellent Bobath physio about 30 mins drive from your area. PM if you want the details. I'm offering this as a personal recommendation, this person got my mother walking again following a stroke that (to cut a long story short), left her wheelchair bound.
If you are more concerned about improving this lady's general health state, to prevent repeat episodes and reduce dependence on medication, then good nutritional therapy, supplementation and all our osteopathic principles are absolutely useful. You will likely need family and carers on board, one of the biggest challenges is when there is unquestioning faith in medicine, that can become an obstacle to overcome in recovering from any situation becoming chronic.
Good luck.
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Permalink Reply by MeMyself&I on -
Yeah, a specialist neuro Physio!
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on
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Somebody with 35 years' experience in teaching people to function again after neurological diseases.
MeMyself&I said:Yeah, a specialist neuro Physio!
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Permalink Reply by indikate on -
I always put my stroke patients on 2g magnesium ascorbate. helps repair the ground substance in the arterial wall. Get them off chlorinated tap water for the same reason as above and make sure they are getting optimal vit D3 sublingually. Then I treat mostly from the sacrum.
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on
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Spot on indikate. We are amply able to improve their health through general modes of treatment, nutrition and other ground level methods. They may have spent weeks or months in hospital and not even seen a vitamin all that time, or sunshine, or been given sufficient water. The low-grade chronic situations that have brought them to crisis point may have been brewing for decades. Yet they come out patched-up and in worse general health than they went in. You don't need to be JML to improve on this.
On another practical point, I would also go through their medication list and advise to reconsider absolutely anything that won't be of direct benefit to them personally. That's too big a subject to go into here, suffice to say you can turn a doctor's hair grey this way but the rewards are huge.
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Permalink Reply by MeMyself&I on
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Now I really don't want to get involved in this conversation but couldn't resist chirping up. Can I ask "indicate" where the RDBC studies are for mg and the evidence against so called chlorinated water(?)and the effects on stroke and or it's recovery. Much appreciated. Please don't quote some 2 bob study done by a 3rd year student at the BSO.
Second to this can I wouldn't go through their medication list. Leave out! If you are just an osteopath you have no, repeat no right to comment on any medication the patient is on. It's bad enough giving half cock nutritional advice when there are nutritionists and dieticians who can do it and actually know what they are talking about.
Why don't you just do something you have been trained to do and articulate effected joints through there ROM, stretch and mobilise effected tissues and if comfortable advice on exercise to the effected areas and general balance/proprioceptive work. Let the CV specialists look after the CV aspects and the Neurologists look after the Neuro stuff...
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on
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Um, magnesium ascorbate is vitamin C. If you aren't aware of its role in vascular health, then quite right, you'd be better just sticking to wiggling arms and legs.
As for medications, we had formal lectures in pharmacology, for a reason. Many osteopaths have read extensively on the subject. Some drugs have obvious problems, many patients fail to recognise common serious side-effects that are damaging their health. What should one do in those circumstances? Same as when you recognise any medical problem that is out of your personal scope - advise they discuss their options with their doctor or other suitable practitioner. Or you can keep quiet and carry on wiggling their arms and legs...
You certainly do not take anyone off anything, quite right, that is for their doctor to do, if they agree, but many people are seriously overmedicated, and many doctors would agree.
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Permalink Reply by indikate on
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Me Myself I thank you for your thoughts. Some of us work with these unfortunate patients alongside their doctors. There are medical specialists in central london who refer ptns to cranial osteopaths because they value their contribution to the patients recovery. They ask us for help. All of this happens because . . . a patient refers a patient who refers their doctor who refers their patients. It helps to have good interpersonal skills to acheive this. Good luck
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Permalink Reply by indikate on
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Perhaps I should expand (now I have more time) on how we try to help CVA ptns, leaving out the psycho-emotional aspect for now.
I am primarily concerned that this result, CVA, in elderly patients is indicative of underlying extremely poor local and systemic, general tissue Health. In particular the vascular system
There is very clear evidence that depleted fibroblastic activity and retrograde fibroblastic maturity is evidenced in patients with poor vit c levels. As you know the mature fibroblasts are necessary for collagen formation and arterial aventitia health.
Also ground substance polymerization starts to break down with low vit C levels a bit like scurvy so the artery intima and media are also in poor health.The body does try to repair this damage to the structure of the ground substance by depositing atheromatous plaques in the artery wall. Less than ideal
Also re chlorine. . how much World War 1 nerve gas is it safe to consume, I wasnt sure so I got out some lab equipment and started testing tap water. The pH of the water was mildly alkaline at 7.65 which was good but the next figure made my jaw hit the floor the charge in the water was +565 mev. To non chemists means that tap water is oxidizing. I installed different filters to remove chlorine and chloramines including ones with GAC KDF and heavy metals and got the charge to +80 mev.( I then bought a machine to make the water - 465 mev amazing stuff which I can expand on if anyones interested)
So from my own lab(cough) to my satisfaction chlorine is likely to be less than advantageous to the health of a stroke patient and should be removed from the diet until it is proved independently to be safe.
Chlorine - powerful oxidizer (sad arteries)
Magnesium ascorbate - powerful reducer (antioxidant) (happy arteries)
Which to choose for your stroke patient
Oh and a pinch of vit c is enough to dechlorinate your bathwater
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Permalink Reply by Roger Kingston on -
DNS as taught by Kolar, and taught post grad at the ESO.
Was originally developed by Vaclav Vojta for treating CP children but has been further developed by Prof Kolar for treating all forms of neural stimulation.
Its the major technique / approach for stroke rehab in Eastern Europe now and can be very effective.
http://www.rehabps.com/REHABILITATION/DNS.html
Just remember that treating stroke is multi discipline - but this is a very important component of that.
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Permalink Reply by MeMyself&I on
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wow ever day is a school day!
Vitamin C you say. Wow! Indikate you are way to bright for me. You've used some big words like polymerization You have your own Lab and everything... Have you published much for independent reviewed journals from that Lab of yours and your WWI nerve gas testing? You could at least tell Thames Water... or even that Rupert Murdoch bloke, he might be interested.
I'm just jesting. All you different Osteopaths out there doing all sorts of weird and wacky stuff... its what makes the world go round. Unfortunately it completely de-rails, de-focuses and confuses Osteopathy to Osteopaths let alone the public... What is it we do again? Oh yeah,we are great at everything I remember. Next patient please (this one has non-vaccinated end stage rabies, I am sure I can cure that...).
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Permalink Reply by Roger Kingston on
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What is your point "All you different Osteopaths out there doing all sorts of weird and wacky stuff... its what makes the world go round. Unfortunately it completely de-rails, de-focuses and confuses Osteopathy to Osteopaths let alone the public"
Please explain?
MeMyself&I said:wow ever day is a school day!
Vitamin C you say. Wow! Indikate you are way to bright for me. You've used some big words like polymerization You have your own Lab and everything... Have you published much for independent reviewed journals from that Lab of yours and your WWI nerve gas testing? You could at least tell Thames Water... or even that Rupert Murdoch bloke, he might be interested.
I'm just jesting. All you different Osteopaths out there doing all sorts of weird and wacky stuff... its what makes the world go round. Unfortunately it completely de-rails, de-focuses and confuses Osteopathy to Osteopaths let alone the public... What is it we do again? Oh yeah,we are great at everything I remember. Next patient please (this one has non-vaccinated end stage rabies, I am sure I can cure that...).
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