Gathering place for osteopaths
Addicted to [the] crack?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on -
Placebo or "belief" is important but it is not the whole picture, for sure. There is the specific therapeutic effect, i.e. the technical intervention (albeit multi-factorial in osteopathy) and then there is the non-specific therapeutic intervention which is about the meeting of you and the patients personalities.......
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on -
Why on earth not? Let's not forget that this isn't a corpse we are treating but living tissue, always adapting and responding. You might not create the change you are describing, but with the right paradigm you might create the conditions for change. This is what I mean by osteopathy hasn't made it out of the classroom and into the clinic.
OsteopathyNY said:I can't imagine one would use HVA for a cranial or fascial lesion.
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Permalink Reply by OsteopathyNY on -
Because not everything in the body can be resolved by cracking a joint. The body is not only made up of joints that need to be forced back into their place. I agree with you that the body is living tissue that is always adapting and responding. That's why you should make progress with your patients- not just doing a routine on everyone that comes through the door. Find out what the tissue is adapting to and treat that. Not every lesion is a joint and should not be treated as such. You may have an influence on a cranial strain or fascia when you use HVA, but what if the primary lesion is not a joint? What joint would you 'pop' for a global fascial strain? What joint are you going to 'pop' to release dural tension from an up-regulated trigeminal nerve? How are you going to 'pop' a liver back into place or a nerve caught in the foramina? I'm not sure I would let anyone try and crack my ethmoid. If you are able to successfully HVA those tissues, then I applaud you but I personally feel there are easier more effective ways. All techniques have advantages and limitations based on the tissue you are trying to treat and you're job should be to use the best one you know how or try and discover a different way.
Why on earth not? Let's not forget that this isn't a corpse we are treating but living tissue, always adapting and responding. You might not create the change you are describing, but with the right paradigm you might create the conditions for change. This is what I mean by osteopathy hasn't made it out of the classroom and into the clinic.
OsteopathyNY said:I can't imagine one would use HVA for a cranial or fascial lesion.
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on
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Clearly you see this with a different paradigm. For example, I don't recognise the idea of the primary lesion: fix it and the rest of everything just de-rotates around it. I believe in straws on the camel's back, adding up to a great weight, while everyone else seems to be looking for an anvil. Where the strain shows first may be quite varied, in one person a slipped disc, in someone else, a stomach ulcer. With a disc I don't go and do something 'to the disc', with an ulcer I wouldn't just go and rub the stomach. Everything is feedback, chickens and eggs all over the place. You can break a loop in many different places, take your pick.
Why would I want to do anything directly to your ethmoid, if it is in trouble, the reason may be quite remote, it may be a body-wide pattern. Fail to address that and all the head-squeezing techniques may struggle to make a permanent change. This is how you fix a car - do something to all the broken bits and it works again. The body works the other way around - all the elements have an in-built capacity to recover, if they don't, it's because the system isn't giving them what they need. That to me is what osteopathy means. We don't need to micromanage elements, unless we believe in things going wrong with no reason. Still taught us structure-function, his way of saying cause and effect must be connected, bits don't just 'go wrong'.
In a sense I agree, one technique won't change anything. On the other hand, the effect of a treatment is not the sum of the effects of all the techniques used during that treatment. Only if the patient is already dead.
But this isn't hypothetical, practitioners everywhere use all kinds of ways to effect a change, many seem quite alien. Who are we to say what somebody else's vision is or isn't capable of accomplishing?
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Permalink Reply by david rodway on -
I use LAHVT but only on joints that, to my palpation at least, feel as if restricted due to some zygapohysial joint dysfunction (?facet lock, imbrication, synovial inclusion, capsular retraction). it is hardly ever my sole ttt at a session. Many pts i never LAHVT - either it is not indicated or is contraindicated.
The pts idea that they have "a bone out" became the idea that they "have a disc out", and now they have got really sophisticated and all have "pinched nerves" that need unpinching.
Clem Middleton, ace osteopathic manipulator who died in his 70s in the early 1980s used to say that, in his last year in practice before he retired he "no longer needed to win friends and influence people"and so, if a pt arrived in his practice and said "it's out again.", he would reply ,"What is? The Hound of the Baskervilles?". Quite right too.
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Permalink Reply by Small Fry on
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To all of which I would add (out of time to edit), if you think HVT means finding the bit in trouble and click it better, then, like me, you had something missing from your initial education. There is a lot - a lot - more to it than that. As I said before, adjustment means different things to different people. Sometimes though I think I might as well be talking Klingon.
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Permalink Reply by Dan A. on -
It would appear that we, green osteopaths or osteopaths to be, all have that same feeling. It would seem that it is partly the fact that you caused it and the fact that it was a success. A pat on your own back of sorts.
At first I always looked for an excuse to practice HVT just to hear that sound that brings that feeling of satisfaction. Slowly I have tried to move away from HVT work but it does call to me often. I try to stay on the wagon but it is not easy!!
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Permalink Reply by Ronan O'Brien on -
Good to see this topic is still going. When I wrote it 2 years ago I was pretty excited with the technique. It had it all - fast movement, a noise, pizazz! I can't say I remain so excited about it, and, after two years of been heavily HVTed as a student I'm much more aware of the chronic-derangement that it can introduce to someone's system.
That said, Laurie Hartman HVTed "a problem area" for me once after which I experienced massive trophic changes to my left UEX, which felt like "freshness" permeating through the area. I've never had a response like that to any other HVT. I'm not sure what Laurie did for it to have such an impact - one thing is clear though, I hadn't been taught to do what Laurie does (whatever that is).
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Permalink Reply by Jody Jakob on
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Laurie is a natural born healer......everyone one can be a healer but some will excell, especially if they work on it.......think of it of like this......everyone can learn to play the piano.....but some will "naturally" excell
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Permalink Reply by david rodway on
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Laurie is almost too good to be a teacher, because he was a such a superbly gifted manipulator. One got the impression he could just pick up any part, any way, and thrust it well without even trying . Not like me, who struggled and struggled. I think his martial arts training helped - with stance and speed. Carved - not by me - on a BSO desk was Laurie Hartman is God (pace Clapton is God). Yet always modest and always approachable. His book is a classic. Why no DVD of his videos yet?
However, re HVT in general now, however well performed any technique, if it is the not the right technique for that patient then its not the right technique regardless of how well its performed.
As osteopaths seem to love aphorisms can I add a few of my own to the canon here (or am i inadvertently quoting someone)?
The wrong technique done well is worse than the right technique done badly.
Manipulate only when needed, only where needed, and only in the way needed.
Catchy ay?
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